#womenINVICTA - Dr. Joanna Liss

Data aktualizacji: 8 August 2023
Publish date: 7 August 2023

Przeczytasz w: 14 min

She gained experience from the best, reached for solutions that no one in Poland had dared to implement before. She has been part of the team since the company’s inception. She built the in vitro laboratory from scratch, and today heads a team of embryologists in Gdansk, Warsaw and Wroclaw. Read how Joanna Liss, MD, Head of INVICTA’s in vitro laboratory and Fertility Bank, Senior Clinical Embryologist, talks about her work with passion.

The in vitro laboratories at INVICTA Clinics are one of our distinct features. You create and set standards that other centers for treating fertility disorders use. What were we, as INVICTA, the first ones to do?

There have been several procedures that we started performing as the first in Poland. INVICTA has been perceived, and I believe it still is, as a center that develops and implements or promotes new solutions. I know that many clinics look up to us, observing how we work and approach certain issues.

In embryology, there is no formal preparation for the profession. It’s not like other fields where one can receive training, learn specific guidelines, and operate accordingly. In our laboratory, we have biologists or biotechnologists by education. The way we work and how our laboratory is organized is a result of the experience we gained by learning from the best. I personally attended training sessions in Hamburg, Stockholm, New York, and Bologna. I observed how they operated in those labs, and Bologna inspired us to implement new procedures. It was back in 2003 when we were the first in Poland to introduce the procedure of freezing egg cells. I remember that at that time, when we discussed these plans at industry meetings, our ideas were met with surprise. People thought it would be impossible. However, in the end, we did it, and the procedure is still functioning today. It was a novelty inspired by Bologna, as they were the pioneers in egg cell freezing in Europe.

The work of an embryologist carries immense responsibility. Patients come to our clinics with hope that we will help them fulfill their dreams. What does it feel like to have the power to fulfill dreams?

Helping patients is our primary task. Embryologists don’t approach it in terms of magic. Certainly, we feel that we are doing something exceptional. We know that we perform a job that is not accessible to all biologists because the profession we practice is niche. We feel that we are doing something extraordinary, but we are also aware that we are part of the entire process related to infertility treatment. In the process of “fulfilling dreams,” we are one element of a larger, challenging puzzle that is infertility treatment. Each piece of this puzzle must fit together and appear at the right moment. The work of an embryologist is a significant puzzle piece in this process.

Can you approach this work without emotions?

In my opinion, no. Emotions accompany us all the time. However, what is crucial and what every embryologist should learn is the ability to maintain distance in various difficult situations. Having control over emotions is very important – they are there, and we cannot get rid of them. Each of our patients is different, and each situation is unique. In my case, after over 20 years of work in the laboratory, I can say that emotions are still present, and there is no room for routine in this profession.

It's hard to imagine, but can such work become routine?

In my opinion, no. Eevery task, every ICSI procedure for a specific patient is a challenge. Each patient is different.

In embryology, we don’t have something where we can compare one patient’s cell to another patient’s cell in terms of similarity or potential. Each cell is unique, each sperm is different. Often, while working under the microscope, we have to make decisions on the spot, such as how to perform a procedure, which sperm to choose etc.

It’s also often the case that after finishing the ICSI process for the day or the entire process, we go home and analyze what happened in the laboratory in our heads. I must admit that I always do this. I listen to my colleagues, and I know that they do the same. We follow “our” cells and embryos. We observe how they develop, and we are curious whether a pregnancy resulted from “our” blastocyst and how that pregnancy progresses. We observe and analyze this process. That’s why the word “routine” doesn’t fit us, in my opinion.

Has there been anything during your many years of practice as an embryologist that particularly surprised you?

Definitely, because in our line of work, each day can bring interesting situations. There are stories that I share with my younger colleagues who join the team.

One involves a couple who had been trying to conceive for quite some time. The issue was that the male partner had very, very poor sperm parameters. The patients had undergone several in vitro procedures – as far as I remember, they had experienced 8-9 unsuccessful attempts. During their last attempt, I spent over 6 hours at the microscope, searching and selecting sperm. It was a significant challenge, and I had to take breaks to give my eyes a chance to rest. The outcome of this story, however, was that the procedure was successful, and the patients had a daughter. Interestingly, after some time, the same patients returned to us with a desire to try for another child. When I heard that, I turned pale 😉 For comparison, I can only say that on average, the time we need to perform an ICSI procedure is about half an hour to an hour. In this case, I needed six hours, and it was truly exhausting. But we embryologists always approach it this way. We don’t give up. We keep searching as long as we see a chance. That’s our approach – we want to maximize the chances of a positive treatment outcome.

In that case, an embryologist should definitely be patient. What other qualities should a good embryologist possess?

The profession of an embryologist is unique and highly demanding, in my opinion. In our work, there are no weekends or holidays. We must be very well organized because we need to adapt to the treatment cycle of our patients. When the doctor performs the procedure and retrieves the oocytes, that’s when we start our work. It means that if oocytes are retrieved, for example, on a Friday, we continue working on Saturday and Sunday. Therefore, I can definitely say that this job is demanding.

An embryologist should be observant, sharp, and have a keen eye – this is essential as we work with optical equipment. Good manual dexterity is also important because we work with manipulators, and it’s a very precise job. I can share an anecdote from one of the recruitment interviews. I often ask candidates about their manual dexterity, whether their hand trembles, as these micro-movements are crucial in our profession. One of the candidates mentioned that she as a hobby assembles models of tanks – very small and requiring high precision. She is still working with us 😊

As embryologists, we must also have the necessary knowledge – understanding all the processes and phenomena related to the cells and embryos we observe daily under the microscope, and interpreting them appropriately. An embryologist should be someone who constantly wants to develop, expand their knowledge, and improve their practical and theoretical qualifications.

One thing to keep in mind is that an embryologist works under time pressure. In the laboratory, we cannot postpone our work for later. Working under time pressure, we must be resilient to stress.

Is inquisitiveness also desirable?

Definitely yes. Although I think that our inquisitiveness can often be burdensome for the people around us. As embryologists, we are often perceived as demanding when interacting with the Clinic’s staff because we are always asking for something, always needing more, constantly inquiring about various things. In our defense, I can say that this stems from our desire to have everything clearly defined in the entire treatment process. We need clear guidelines and reliable information to ensure that the entire process goes as it should. We are actually at the end of the infertility treatment process, and we must have all the necessary information, and there is quite a lot of it.

As for my inquisitiveness, it probably also comes from my initial thoughts of working in the field of forensic medicine. Things turned out differently, but the thoroughness and inquisitiveness stayed with me and proved to be helpful. Most of the people who work in our in vitro laboratory possess such traits, and it is undoubtedly a valuable aspect for us.

Work in the in vitro laboratory is one area of your professional activity. On the other hand, you are dedicated to scientific work - holding the position of a professor at the Faculty of Biology at the University of Gdańsk, giving lectures, and supervising master's and bachelor's theses for students. What does this part of your professional activity give you?

This work relaxes me and allows me to continue developing because I constantly have to keep track of what is happening in the scientific literature. I cannot imagine resting on my laurels and stopping my activities, which is why I continue my scientific path. Working at the university allows me to share theoretical knowledge as well as the experience I gained in the field of assisted reproductive technology. This is crucial because, despite appearances, myths about in vitro fertilization are still circulating. I believe that through my role at the university, I can contribute a bit to debunking these myths.

Regarding master’s and bachelor’s theses, I enjoy the fact that sometimes I manage to instill the spirit of a scientist in my students, and later, some of them choose to stay at the university to further develop or pursue projects in the field of infertility. Moreover, the topics I propose for their theses address issues related to improving certain areas or attempting to find answers to the questions we deal with daily in the field of assisted reproductive technology. I think this can be interesting for my students.

Of course, at the beginning, we have to go through the theoretical part related to embryology, and I know it might be boring for the young students, but to progress further – to understand physiology and uncover the secrets of working in the laboratory – we need that foundation. I also know from the students that they find it valuable and exciting that, thanks to the courtesy of the Analytical Laboratory as well as Molecular Biology, they can visit us and see how we work. This is a great value for them.

And after work - what helps you catch distance and gain strength?

For some people who know me, it won’t be news, but for others, it might be – I absolutely adore the field of pastry and confectionery. Baking or creating new ideas for various cakes and desserts is something that allows me to find emotional release after a whole week of work. Often, with positive results, judging by the feedback from the testers 😊 Therefore, maybe someday I’ll open my own pastry shop?

Besides that, I have a really great connection with animals. I have two dogs and two cats myself, and the relationship I have with them and long walks, helps me catch my breath and recharge my batteries.